| Subject: Student-staff consultative committee, spring 2011 | Topic: Student-Staff Consultative Committee spring 2011 |
| Author: Carol O Sullivan | Date: 06 April 2011 10:25 |
Dear all,
The student-staff consultative committee is an opportunity for you to tell us your views on any aspect of the course. This may include e.g.:
* Induction and registration
* Course management
* Resources
* Course structure and content
* Student support and guidance
You may post your input here on the course website as a reply to this message. Alternatively, you may email your feedback to carol.osullivan@port.ac.uk.
The student-staff consultative committee is an opportunity for you to tell us your views on any aspect of the course. This may include e.g.:
* Induction and registration
* Course management
* Resources
* Course structure and content
* Student support and guidance
You may post your input here on the course website as a reply to this message. Alternatively, you may email your feedback to carol.osullivan@port.ac.uk.
| Subject: Re:Student-staff consultative committee, spring 2011 | Topic: Student-Staff Consultative Committee spring 2011 |
| Author: CHRISTOPHER FITZSIMONS | Date: 06 April 2011 11:22 |
Hello Carol and everyone,
This is a great idea; thank you for providing this space. I just wanted to use this opportunity to share my concern and disappointment regarding one aspect of the course content.
I chose the MA Programme in Translation Studies at the University of Portsmouth for two main reasons. The first is that a good selection of both theoretical and practical modules is offered which effectively creates two distinct pathways on the course; one for those interesting in pursuing research and an academic career in translation and one for those who want to use the programme to develop their vocational and professional skills in order to work professionally as a translator. Of course there are also those interested in both these “pathways” and the programme enables us to achieve a balance between the theoretical and the practical should we wish to. The second is that it is possible to exit the programme at three different levels. As such, I decided to choose the four “Specialised Translation” modules for my first year of the course with the aim of completing them and existing with the Post-graduate Certificate in 2012. I chose these modules as I believed them to be the most vocationally orientated and I want to use the course to develop and improve my translation skills and to gain specialised knowledge through these modules. I feel that this sort of flexibility in the course structure and the variety of modules available enables students on the course to focus their learning on the areas they are most personally and professionally interested in and to get what they want out of the degree.
I am currently following “Specialised Translation 2” in both French and German and have so far been very pleased with the modules with one significant exception. The aim of this module, according to the handbook, is:
“to familiarise students with the main language-specific resources of the translator for specific domains
2. to identify the problems of translating specialised texts;
3. to identify strategies for the translation of such texts;
4. to develop the critical comparison and evaluation of alternative translations.”
There is a general consensus in the translation industry and among the professional bodies I am involved with that it is highly unprofessional to translate out of one's native language. All of the outsorcers I work with make it very clear that they only work with professionals who translate into their native language. However, the third block of the French Specialised Translation 2 module is only offered into French.
I have to disagree with the logic of this. Professionally, translators never translate out of their native language unless they are completely bi-lingual, which very few people are. As I am studying this course as Continuing Professional Development and work professionally as a translator I expect it to develop my areas of specialisation and my translation skills. I have only ever translated out of my native language on my undergraduate degree and this was in the context of improving my writing skills in the foreign language as well as my understanding of that language. I would not expect to be asked to do so on a Masters in Translation, especially not on a module in specialised translation which is clearly aimed at those students who have chosen this course for vocational and practical purposes. I appreciate that there is an language option when it comes to the assessment and that we are encouraged to translate both ways within our groups but I feel that it would be much more beneficial for me personally (and for anyone studying this course for a similar reason) to translate exclusively into my native language and have this work marked as part of this block than to translate into French, which, at best, is a purely linguistic exercise and has little to do with the profession of translation given that a client would never expect me to translate that way. I understand that there is a mixture of native Francophones and Anglophones studying on the course and as such I would like to suggest that in these modules, for each block, there is an option to translate in either direction, according to each individual’s native language.
I strongly feel that the department should make it clearer in marketing this course that students will be expected to translate out of their native language (even if it is only for one of the three blocks on each module). If I had known this it would have made me reconsider my choices. It also seems entirely illogical to practise translation into French for this area of specialisation and then be assessed on a translation into English.
I understand that translating out of English can be a useful exercise but I feel that it is the sort of language training that should be done on an undergraduate degree in languages (on which the aim is to develop and improve one’s command of a foreign language) and not on a masters level degree specifically in translation (which I feel should be focusing on improving my translation skills, i.e. primarily my writing skills in the target language). In short, I feel that we should be focusing on perfecting our translation skills which evidently encompasses a good level of understanding of the source text (which I believe we should already have acquired at this point from our previous studies/experience and should only be perfecting at this stage) in addition to practising and improving our writing skills in the target language. From a professional perspective, this degree programme and specifically this module, I believe, should be focusing on helping us to develop our specialised skills and knowledge and ensuring that we are translating to a professional level and it is highly unprofessional, in that context, to translate out of our native language. I don’t believe that it is a valid argument to consider that certain people may personally believe they are capable of translating out of their native language and therefore it is down to each individual to decide whether or not they are happy to do so. In the professional world this is just not acceptable in 99% of cases and it is important to recognise and respect that. I believe that it is very important, on a programme like this, to value both those who would like to focus on theory as well as those who are mainly interested in practice and to not engineer the course in such a way that one group is disadvantaged and prevented from achieving their objectives. The only colleagues I know who translate into two languages professionally are those from Quebec who have been educated, from childhood, in both languages, to an equal standard and have grown up in an entirely bilingual environment. And that is a completely different scenario to someone translating out of their native tongue. Most of us have just one native language and one or several (sometimes relatively passive) source languages. As a learning exercise it is fine to translate out of one’s native language, but I just feel that it is not the sort of exercise that is suited to this kind of module and programme and that we should be using our valuable time to practise the actual tasks which the profession of translating encompasses, rather than practising our writing skills in a foreign language, which is undoubtedly a valuable and significant skill, but one which I feel would be more suited to a degree in language/linguistics and not one in translation.
This is a great idea; thank you for providing this space. I just wanted to use this opportunity to share my concern and disappointment regarding one aspect of the course content.
I chose the MA Programme in Translation Studies at the University of Portsmouth for two main reasons. The first is that a good selection of both theoretical and practical modules is offered which effectively creates two distinct pathways on the course; one for those interesting in pursuing research and an academic career in translation and one for those who want to use the programme to develop their vocational and professional skills in order to work professionally as a translator. Of course there are also those interested in both these “pathways” and the programme enables us to achieve a balance between the theoretical and the practical should we wish to. The second is that it is possible to exit the programme at three different levels. As such, I decided to choose the four “Specialised Translation” modules for my first year of the course with the aim of completing them and existing with the Post-graduate Certificate in 2012. I chose these modules as I believed them to be the most vocationally orientated and I want to use the course to develop and improve my translation skills and to gain specialised knowledge through these modules. I feel that this sort of flexibility in the course structure and the variety of modules available enables students on the course to focus their learning on the areas they are most personally and professionally interested in and to get what they want out of the degree.
I am currently following “Specialised Translation 2” in both French and German and have so far been very pleased with the modules with one significant exception. The aim of this module, according to the handbook, is:
“to familiarise students with the main language-specific resources of the translator for specific domains
2. to identify the problems of translating specialised texts;
3. to identify strategies for the translation of such texts;
4. to develop the critical comparison and evaluation of alternative translations.”
There is a general consensus in the translation industry and among the professional bodies I am involved with that it is highly unprofessional to translate out of one's native language. All of the outsorcers I work with make it very clear that they only work with professionals who translate into their native language. However, the third block of the French Specialised Translation 2 module is only offered into French.
I have to disagree with the logic of this. Professionally, translators never translate out of their native language unless they are completely bi-lingual, which very few people are. As I am studying this course as Continuing Professional Development and work professionally as a translator I expect it to develop my areas of specialisation and my translation skills. I have only ever translated out of my native language on my undergraduate degree and this was in the context of improving my writing skills in the foreign language as well as my understanding of that language. I would not expect to be asked to do so on a Masters in Translation, especially not on a module in specialised translation which is clearly aimed at those students who have chosen this course for vocational and practical purposes. I appreciate that there is an language option when it comes to the assessment and that we are encouraged to translate both ways within our groups but I feel that it would be much more beneficial for me personally (and for anyone studying this course for a similar reason) to translate exclusively into my native language and have this work marked as part of this block than to translate into French, which, at best, is a purely linguistic exercise and has little to do with the profession of translation given that a client would never expect me to translate that way. I understand that there is a mixture of native Francophones and Anglophones studying on the course and as such I would like to suggest that in these modules, for each block, there is an option to translate in either direction, according to each individual’s native language.
I strongly feel that the department should make it clearer in marketing this course that students will be expected to translate out of their native language (even if it is only for one of the three blocks on each module). If I had known this it would have made me reconsider my choices. It also seems entirely illogical to practise translation into French for this area of specialisation and then be assessed on a translation into English.
I understand that translating out of English can be a useful exercise but I feel that it is the sort of language training that should be done on an undergraduate degree in languages (on which the aim is to develop and improve one’s command of a foreign language) and not on a masters level degree specifically in translation (which I feel should be focusing on improving my translation skills, i.e. primarily my writing skills in the target language). In short, I feel that we should be focusing on perfecting our translation skills which evidently encompasses a good level of understanding of the source text (which I believe we should already have acquired at this point from our previous studies/experience and should only be perfecting at this stage) in addition to practising and improving our writing skills in the target language. From a professional perspective, this degree programme and specifically this module, I believe, should be focusing on helping us to develop our specialised skills and knowledge and ensuring that we are translating to a professional level and it is highly unprofessional, in that context, to translate out of our native language. I don’t believe that it is a valid argument to consider that certain people may personally believe they are capable of translating out of their native language and therefore it is down to each individual to decide whether or not they are happy to do so. In the professional world this is just not acceptable in 99% of cases and it is important to recognise and respect that. I believe that it is very important, on a programme like this, to value both those who would like to focus on theory as well as those who are mainly interested in practice and to not engineer the course in such a way that one group is disadvantaged and prevented from achieving their objectives. The only colleagues I know who translate into two languages professionally are those from Quebec who have been educated, from childhood, in both languages, to an equal standard and have grown up in an entirely bilingual environment. And that is a completely different scenario to someone translating out of their native tongue. Most of us have just one native language and one or several (sometimes relatively passive) source languages. As a learning exercise it is fine to translate out of one’s native language, but I just feel that it is not the sort of exercise that is suited to this kind of module and programme and that we should be using our valuable time to practise the actual tasks which the profession of translating encompasses, rather than practising our writing skills in a foreign language, which is undoubtedly a valuable and significant skill, but one which I feel would be more suited to a degree in language/linguistics and not one in translation.
| Subject: Re:Student-staff consultative committee, spring 2011 | Topic: Student-Staff Consultative Committee spring 2011 |
| Author: STUDENT XXXXXXXX | Date: 11 April 2011 12:08 |
I know in some 'real worlds' we are often asked to translate into L2. It is an excellent educational exercise and prepares the percentage of students who will confront this.
| Subject: Re:Student-staff consultative committee, spring 2011 | Topic: Student-Staff Consultative Committee spring 2011 |
| Author: CHRISTOPHER FITZSIMONS | Date: 11 April 2011 15:39 |
Any reputable company in the translation industry I have ever worked with (and I work with many different companies in many different countries) would never ask a non-bilingual professional to translate out of their native language. Perhaps a direct (non-agency) client would, but this is only out of ignorance with regard to the industry and is a case of client education being necessary and being the responsibility of the translator. As I said, it is extremely uncommon (and unprofessional) for a language services provider to be asked to produce a (written) translation into a language which is not their first language. Perhaps you are thinking of interpreting, which is a completely separate profession, when you mention "L2". In the translation industry we talk in terms of "source" and "target" languages and the target language should always be the translator's native language.
I have no problem with anyone choosing to translate out of their native language as an educational exercise. If you read my post carefully you will see that I have mentioned this several times. My point is that I feel that this exercise is of neglibible benefit to me personally in achieving my professional learning objectives with regard to this course and I feel that we should not be forced to do so on an MA in Translation. Everyone should be given a choice, at all times, to choose the direction in which they translate.
As for the "percentage of students who confront this", firstly students should not be translating professionally and secondly, it is our professional duty, as translators to educate outsourcers about our profession, meaning that any client asking you to produce work out of your native language should be referred on to a colleague who is a native in the target language.
I have no problem with anyone choosing to translate out of their native language as an educational exercise. If you read my post carefully you will see that I have mentioned this several times. My point is that I feel that this exercise is of neglibible benefit to me personally in achieving my professional learning objectives with regard to this course and I feel that we should not be forced to do so on an MA in Translation. Everyone should be given a choice, at all times, to choose the direction in which they translate.
As for the "percentage of students who confront this", firstly students should not be translating professionally and secondly, it is our professional duty, as translators to educate outsourcers about our profession, meaning that any client asking you to produce work out of your native language should be referred on to a colleague who is a native in the target language.
_______________________________
I dislike the sort of arrogant, ignorant and condescending put down that my (carefully explained and justified!) post received. I have no problem with differing opinions *but* if you decide to treat someone with absolute derision then you can only expect the same back. I get very frustrated and offended by ignorant viewpoints and by people who are doing little more than sucking up to authority. I'm sorry, but I am an adult and am paying for the course; I have every right to express my opinion and to provide suggestions for improvement. I think it is incredibly immature to discredit my reasons for studying the course, my desire to exit at PG Cert level and my focus on the vocational, professional aspects of the course. And, at the end of the day, I feel that is what the issue is. I am not being disrespectful by expressing my opinion when it is solicited. I don't have to conform to a certain attitude towards post-graduate study. I already have an MA, which I worked hard to get. That sort of smarmy, belittling comment from someone who clearly doesn't know what they are talking about and clearly can't even be bothered to properly read my post and provide a reasoned response is unnecessary and offensive.
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